Undocumented Genos2 voices

jenygard

If we look at where the voices are placed, we will see that for example 008-081-018 E.BassRock2 are placed in Preset:/Stylevoice/Bass, while the righthand voice E.BassRock2 is placed in Preset: /Bass with ID 008-065-018. So there seems to be a hidden group for internal voices not meant to be used by the keyboard player and therefore not shown in the manual.

StylePlayer

jenygard Hm, so there is a whole separated folder "/Stylevoice" that is not documented? Can you see what else is in that folder, are there a lot of voices in there? Does it allow you to freely navigate through that folder and its subfolders?

jenygard

No, the /Stylevoice folder is normally hidden from the user, You cannot navigate to it via the menu system. Only when your test tool finds a voice, then its visible. It seems like every voice that is meant for the player, is mirrored in /Styleplayer if it is also used in a preset style. I have tested the first four in the list above. I would have shown you in a screenshot, but the "add an image" function does not seem to work?

StylePlayer

The part that is not clear to me is what inside the /Stylevoice folder. I understand you cannot navigate to it normally, but once you used the test tool and manually touched that voice it drops you into that folder so you can look around. What does that folder contain exactly?

jenygard It seems like every voice that is meant for the player, is mirrored in /Styleplayer if it is also used in a preset style.

Does it mean /Stylevoice contains a copy of every single regular voice (1000+) named the same, but numbered differently or something? For example, if you go to the Piano subfolder under /Stylevoice can you please list a few samples of voice names along with the voice numbers that are shown here. Does it contain the full list of pianos from a regular folder?

I don't really understand the purpose of this separation, is this unique to Genos2 or other keyboards have the same hidden folder /Stylevoice? Why do they have hidden copies of the same voices, are they exactly the same sounding or modified?

Thank you.

Runner4Fun50

What jenygard writes, I confirm that fully.
I didn't mention it. And in addition I checked the voices with voices as part of the XG-/GM-/GM2-groups too. Those groups are hidden. You can't find those voices within the voice folders shown on the display. But they are existing. And it could be the two Organ voices are hidden too and allows open styles which include those elder voices from other Yamaha keyboards, but not all of them, only a part.

Runner4Fun50

Answer to confirm your question above by executing your steps described.
StylePlayer

All 008-xxx-xxx ID's are matching the voice numbers existing, no substitutes.
104-001-044 (String Quartet) is a Legacy voice and is no substitute
104-001-042 (ClassicViolas) are shown as 009-034-046 - is part of Emsemble AND Strings
104-004-017 (RichBars) is hidden (as PresetOrganFlutes) and it is not possible to be searched for (no result)
104-003-017 (BalladOrgan) is hidden (as part "Organ". If you search for BalladOrgan, it has the ID 010-005-001

jenygard

StylePlayer
The /Stylevoice folder is subdivided into instruments groups, corresponding to the preset instrument groups (Bass, Strings, Brass etc.), and can contain many voices, but fewer than the visible presets. They are named exactly the same, but the IDs are different, sometimes only one of the groups of 3 numbers are changed, but there isn't a clear pattern. I can't access /Stylevoice/Piano, because there is no piano among your example IDs.
The reason for this must be that only voices that are used in preset styles are duplicated to /Stylevoice/(subgroup), and that each voice is altered in a way to fit the purpose. Playing the voice in a style must be different to playing it as a righthand or lefthand voice. People that own other keyboards should be able to tell if this is universal to Yamaha keyboards.

StylePlayer

The forum doesn't support direct image uploads (that's a can of worms with lots of legal and maintenance issues), but you can upload your images to numerous online image hosting sites like https://imgur.com/upload and then attach a link to it.

jenygard

StylePlayer
I have my own homepage that can host pictures, so take a look at two pictures of my external screen, shown a couple of examples. The ClassicViola has no counterpart among the ordinary String voices, only plural ClassicViolas. The FunkBarytonSax har counterparts in Woodwind and Ensembleparts. If you compare to the Voice list in the manual, you should see that there are fewer voices in /Stylevoice/Strings and /Stylevoice/Woodwind.

Go to https://www.jenygard.net/Other/Genos-stuff/n-xDGpPq
(The adress is safe, it is hosted on Smugmug with my own domainadress 😀)

StylePlayer

jenygard Awesome, thank you so much!

Runner4Fun50

@jenygard
Let me add some reamarks.
To enter the /StyleVoice/ folder, you have to start with the style concerned (i.e. StandardRock) and then change to MIXER. Click on the respective voice (i.e. Bass channel > E.BassRock2).
The bottom line information shows the folder /StyleVoice/Bass/ .
The shown style voice E.BassRock2 (S.Art2) has the ID number 008-081-018.
If you search that voice in Genos2's (on R1,2 or3), it shows now 008-065-018 for the same voice name.
I did those steps with all of the further given voice-IDs StylePlayer mentioned.
Results:

Style BigRockBallad - 008-054-057 (CrescendoTrumpets (S.Art)) > not found in Genos2 PresetVoices
Style DetroitSoul - 008-080-082 (FunkBaritoneSax (S.Art2)) > Genos2 PresetVoices as follows:
Brass: 008-064-082
EnsembleV.: 009-064-082
Style TheBlues - 008-081-082 (BaritoneSax (S.Art2)) > Genos2 PresetVoice 008-065-082
Style R&B SoulBallad - 008-080-065 (MuteTrumpet (S.Art2)) > Genos2 PresetVoicesd as follows:
Brass: 008-064-065
EnsembleV.: 009-064-065
Style SouthernSoul - 104-001-042 (PresetVoice StringQuartet) > Genos2 LegacyVoice 000-114-050
Style R&B SlowBallad - 104-001-042 (ClassicViola) > not found in Genos2 PresetVoices
Style R&B Shuffle - 104-004-017 (PresetOrganFlutes/RichBars) > not found in Genos2 PresetVoices
Style 60sPsychedelicRock - 104-003-017 (BalladOrgan) > Genos2 PrfesetVoice 010-005-001

The entry for those "hidden" voices is to start with a style via MIXER and respective voice which brings you to all other Genos2 voices which are not listed in the display's preset voices for LEFT, RIGHT 1,2 and 3.
Many styles with the resp. elder channel voices are transferred from former keyboards, like Tyros-Series, Genos1 and PSR's as well. They need those elder unchanged voices (i.e. Legacy, GM/XG, GM2, MegaVoices) which are available in those "hidden" voice areas. And we have to take in mind, most of the Genos2 voices were improved concerning sound and effects. That would explain the "miracle" of different IDs for the same voice-name.

StylePlayer

Runner4Fun50 Thank you for the detailed research!

I think what I am going to do next is try to analyze all factory styles for a few recent keyboards and come up with a full list of all undocumented voices, to understand if this is unique to Genos2 or this was always the case. This list will hopefully also give us access to all subfolders inside StyleVoice/ so we can look around and get the rest of the hidden voices.

My goal is to document all these voices, I think this would be a great insight for all keyboard owners, style creators and developers. We possibly have access to hundreds of additional hidden voices that could be used in custom styles, and they must be high quality voices if they were chosen for factory styles. This will also help me with my auto compatibility detection and future auto revoicing, as I need to know exactly what voices are available on each keyboard.

Ok let me try to pull the full list of hidden voices from factory styles in the next few days and then we will see what we can do next.

Runner4Fun50

That's fine and much success in doing so !

StylePlayer

Extracted all the hidden voices I could from the factory styles and updated the initial post.

If anyone has spare time we should try to name and organize all these voices (not only what's listed here but also other voices inside the hidden folders). If it's too much for you to type you can take pictures of the voice selection screens and send them to contact@styleplayer.io and I will enter them. At the end I will make all these voice lists public for everyone's benefit.

Thank you,

jenygard

StylePlayer I have photographed every Stylevoice subfolder in Genos2 for you. You find it same place as last time:

https://www.jenygard.net/Other/Genos-stuff/n-xDGpPq

StylePlayer

jenygard Amazing, thank you so much! I am going to start updating the first post with the voices we captured. If anyone can contribute screens for other keyboards it would be greatly appreciated.

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